ReplayGain metadata

[PapaBear]

Hi,
Just quickly want to clear something up about Replaygain being used in PFOA.
I don't know all the details about it but if I'm not mistaken the ReplayGain data is being stored in the metadata of the audio file. For mp3 files this would be the ID3 tag.

Am I correct that when playing these audio files (that have their replaygain values set in PFOA) in other software the same replaygain data will be used?
Actually I am trying to avoid the replaygain values from being permanently set and used in other programs. I want the original gain levels to be used in the other software.

On a side note, when just trying to make the music tracks (mp3) have the same gain level within PFOA do I need the extra (peak) Normalization ?
I'm thinking professional music that's already been mastered, already is peak-normalized, right? So the Replaygain+Normalization won't benefit over just ReplayGain.

Thanks in advance.
PB

[radio42]

Am I correct that when playing these audio files (that have their replaygain values set in PFOA) in other software the same replaygain data will be used?

Yes, this is correct - even though there is no fully defined standrad, Proppfexx saves the ReplayGain data as recommended.
So any other software using this 'defacto' standard might also read these ReplayGain values.
However, typically you might also disable the ReplayGain evaluation/reading feature in the 'other' software as well - as you can within ProppFrexx. But that is up the 'other' software.

As such, the only chance to not save the ReplayGain values to the audio files TAG data would be to enable the "Never Save anything to Audio Files" option within the general settings (section 'MetaData/WaveForm'). But enabling this option would also mean, that any other meta data is NEVER saved to the audio file and as such you must save all meta data e.g. to the .pfmd file seperately!
Not sure, if you really want this.
So I guess the best solution would be to take a look to the 'other' software and see, if you might simply disable the ReplayGain evaluation there!

On a side note, when just trying to make the music tracks (mp3) have the same gain level within PFOA do I need the extra (peak) Normalization ?

No, that isn't necessarily needed.
Yes, modern mastered music is typically already normalized, but older or self-recorded/ripped tracks might not be normalized.
As such the 'ReplayGain + Normalization' feature within ProppFrexx is just there to also cover scenarios, where you have to deal with both: already normalized and un-normalized tracks - as in these situations the combined mode would handle both equally.

[PapaBear]

Ok, thanks for clearing that up.
I'm going to settle for the option to "Never Save anything to Audio Files" and instead use .pfmd files. For now.
Because the other software doesn't seem to have an option to disable Replaygain.

I forgot to ask in my previous post... I'm a bit confused about the ReplayGain values being set in PFOA.
I think the standard target loudness is 89dB SPL. Is this what the setting "Default Replay Gain" is or is this something else?

So a better formulated question could be:
For tracks not having any Replaygain data set so far at what point does the replaygain calculation start and how do I correctly set the target loudness?

[radio42]

The target loudness for RG calculation is not configurable, it is always defined to be 89dB SPL.
Also note, that PF only calculates the RG values, if either manually invoked or if you set the Auto ReplayGain Calculation option.
As such the Default ReplayGain value defines the attenuation value to use for those tracks not having any RG values set (and no automatic calculation is defined).

[PapaBear]

Ok, I got that, so if you allow me a few more questions on the subject.

1. If the target loudness is defined at 89dB what do I use the "Default" value (-6dB) for in the settings?

2. But most of all the "Automatic Replay Calculation" setting seems to be used for tracks which have no ReplayGain value set so far, which is a real good option.
How about automatic (re-)calculation for tracks that already have a ReplayGain value?
Isn't that what makes ReplayGain integration in PF complete, to have all tracks with the same volume?
Now I have tracks from different sources, some with no ReplayGain value and some with a "wrong" value set.

3. To make the RG data auto-save I suppose I need to check "Tags" in "What MetaData to Auto Save"?

Thank you once again.

[PapaBear]

Thank you for clearing all this up.

About the other software, for instance, there is MP3Gain which easily lets you change the target loudness without , in my opinion, enough warning to the user this should be left at 89dB.

[radio42]

to 1.: see above...
The 'Default ReplayGain' value defines the attenuation value to use for those tracks not having any RG values set (and no automatic calculation is defined).

to 2:
That is correct, tracks already having a ReplayGain value calculated of course do not automatically (re)calculate it - ProppFrexx in such case must assume, that these ReplayGain values are correct and will use them as is!
If you have tracks containing a 'wrong' ReplayGain value set, please report that to the software vendor, which incorrectly calculated them!
In such case you must manually re-calculate the ReplayGain values - e.g. use the appropriate contact-menu from the ProppFrexx ONAIR playlist window, the TAG Editor - or use the ProppFrexx Meta Data Editor (Tagger) to so so.
Unfortunately ProppFrexx can not guess, if an existing RG value is right or wrong, nor can ProppFrexx detect, which software calculated the ReplayGain values.

to 3.:
If you don't want to save anything to the TAG data (and have set this option) you might want to set the following general 'Meta Data/WaveForm' options:
- Use MetaData Fiels (.pfmd) : checked
- Auto Save MetaData to .pfmd File: select any appropriate ProppFrexx players to which this should apply
- What MetaData to Auto Save : the ReplayGain values are actually always saved regardless of any option selected here, however, in your case
I guess you also want to check the 'Tags' options here (to save any Title, Artist etc. changes as well)!