PFOA crash

[radio42]

I assume that the debug log also doesn't give you any hint?

[hdradio]

Debug log does not show anything. What worries me is that my backup pc which has different hardware crashes too. I had no such a problem for months and i have not changed anything in hardware of both pcs. I believe that something is wrong in my pfoa setup.

[radio42]

That's why I asked about a certain pattern. If it would be your PF setup it would crash at a certain point, eg. a certain script, overlay, track whatsoever.

[radio42]

As this is constantly the same error at irrata times with no internal ProppFrexx exception, I can only assume a general system issue.
This can be almost everything, from a hardware defect to a system driver issue.
The error the other user had is resolved.
So far you are indeed the only user having this exception, so I really do not think, that it is a ProppFrexx issue.
I am really sorry, but I would have no idea on how to resolve this issue with you.
The excpetion such a general Windows exception, that it can be really anything. From hard disk to memory to any other device being used.

[hdradio]

Bernd the problems started after changing my mixer setup. Now my setup is :

Code: Select all

Output Mixers:
-------------------
PLAY: 
- Driver Model: NONE
- Copy To: OUT
- Apply Master Volume: Yes
- Mute On Talkover: No
Use this mixer channel for all your regular player routings, DJ PLayer A...D, Standby, CW I, II, MOD and Overlay.
- SND: MON, VOUT (AutoSND2 - Off)

OUT:
- Driver Model: ASIO M-Audio Delta
- Copy To: STRM
- Apply Master Volume: No
- Mute On Talkover: No
- SND: HEAD (with 'AutoSND2' at 'No PFL')

MON:
- Driver Model: WASAPI (Speakers)
- Copy To: --
- Apply Master Volume: No
- Mute On Talkover: Yes

HEAD:
- Driver Model: WASAPI (Headphones)
- Copy To: --
- Apply Master Volume: No
- Mute On Talkover: No
Use this channel for PFL Player, Quick monitor

VOUT:
- Driver Model: WASAPI (virtual sound card in)
- Copy To: --
- Apply Master Volume: No
- Mute On Talkover: No

STRM:
- Driver Model: NONE
- Copy To: --
- Apply Master Volume: No
- Mute On Talkover: No
Use this channel to feed streaming encoders

Input Mixers:
-----------------
MIC1:
- Driver Model: WASAPI (Microphone)
- Output To: OUT
- Mute On Overlay: No
- Unmute On Talkover: Yes
- SND: VOUT (AutoSND2 - Off)

VIN:
- Driver Model: WASAPI (virtual sound card out)
- Output To: OUT
- Mute On Overlay: No
- Unmute On Talkover: No
- SND: MON, HEAD (AutoSND2 - Off)

Today I noticed an echo at my streaming channel. It stopped when I disabled SND of OUT channel.
I checked again the configuration and echo stopped. I don't know why. And if this is related to crashes.

[hdradio]

I use a separate STRM channel because I apply a compressor and AGC to this channel. I don't want this compressor to OUT channel as OUT channel feeds an Omnia processor.
Also I have noticed that after some hours of playback the mix channels are out of sync. I then click Recreate and Reset on each channel (except STRM). If I click Recreate and Reset on STRM channel, it restarts my streaming encoders (this results in disconnection of clients listening to stream).

VIN and VOUT are virtual audio cards that send and receive audio to skype, voip, etc.

[radio42]

I can not notice any audio (echo) loop in that setup, except you have configured something extra in the Windows Sound Control panel?

You say, that the echo stops when you deactivate SND on the OUT channel, this means, something goes wrong in your HEAD channel at that time?
But now the echo stopped at all - just by checking the config?
But yes, an audio feedback loop resp. using a WASAPI device in a reference loop twice can cause issues depending on how good the driver is implemented.

Are VIN and VOUT somehow related (using the same device)?
As VIN feeds to OUT, MON and HEAD - and VOUT seems to receive things, this could potentially be a feedback loop in case VIN and VOUT are logically connected. But I assume these are 'just' virtual Audio over IP devices...sending resp. receiving audio over the local network?

I also do not fully get for why you need an extra STRM channel?
As this anyhow only receives its signal from OUT, it is a direct copy.
However, as this on uses the NONE driver model and is not connected to a physical device, it is forced to play virtually by its own!
This is not really perfect, as it now must use your system clock to generate the sample rate.
Why don't you directly use OUT for streaming?

[radio42]

Yes, it is expected, that the channels might drift apart over time, as you are using a) different sound cards and b) different driver models.
Each sound card device uses its own internal sample rate clock. As the different clocks are not synced in your case (except you are using a single world clock signal for all of them) and thus slightly different sample rates will shift the signal apart over time.
E.g. one sound card might physically run at 44.100005 kHz and another one might physically run at 44.09997 kHz - even if both are set to 44.1 kHz - this is simply just like with your wrist watch, which is also never 100% accurate.

And that is one of the reason, why I always recommend to NOT mix different sound cards and driver models!

And of course would a 'Recreate and Reset' on the streaming channel shortly interrupt your streaming server, you are 'stealing' its source.

So an ideal solution would either be to use one single multi-channel sound card or to sync your existing sound cards with a world clock signal (which I assume is the more expensive solution, if possible at all, as your existing sound cards needs a world clock input in order to support this). Else, your audio single will always drift apart over time - that is simply the nature of digital audio processing.

Also note, that some DSPs add some extra latency to the signal path as well. As such using DSPs in one signal path might add latency to that signal path; whereas another signal path (without these DSPs) won't have that extra latency.
This however (if running on the same or on synchronized sound cards) won't drift the signal apart.

[hdradio]

The last 10 days I had not any crash. I hope it continues like this.

[radio42]

Oki, perfect.
So what have you changed in your setup/environment?