New Track Insert Mode

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Frode Langhelle
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Joined: 21 May 2022 14:26
New Track Insert Mode

Post by Frode Langhelle »

Hi Bernd

If possible. Can you add an extra Track Insert Mode. I'm now using the "Start With Cue-In Or End With Ramp Of New Track" on my sweepers. This one protects the ramp of the next track. It would be great with an extra "Start With Outro Or End With Ramp Of New Track". The reason is: I have some Promos that starts with underlaying music and ends with clean voice overs for the last 10-5 seconds. I then make sure that the Outro marker is set exactly at the point where the music ends in the promo, at the point where it would be perfect for the next track to start. If the ramp on the next track is less than the remaining duration of the promo it protects the ramp of next track.

All the best!

Frode
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radio42
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Re: New Track Insert Mode

Post by radio42 »

By default, any transition starts with the Next Cue-Point.
I.e. why don't you set the Next cue-point to exactly where the underlying music ends with clean voice overs for the last 10-5 seconds; i.e. where you currently set your Outro cue-point.
You could then use the "VO: Regular but Protect Ramp of Next Track" transition mode, which exactly does what you are looking for.

But maybe you can explain what you mean by: "If the ramp on the next track is less than the remaining duration of the promo it protects the ramp of next track."
So how do you want to protect the ramp?
You can only protect the ramp of next track, by moving the Next cue-point; i.e. the Next cue-point starts later.

Example:
In your promo the Next cue-point is set to a position, so that you have 7 remaining seconds (e.g. promo is 30 sec. long, Next is at position 23 sec.).
But the ramp of the next track is only 5 sec. long.
Result: the Next cue-point will be shifted from position 23 sec. to position 25 sec.

If you still want the Outro cue-point to be used, have you tried the "VO: Start with Outro of Previous and End with Ramp of Next Track" transition?
Frode Langhelle
Posts: 7
Joined: 21 May 2022 14:26
Re: New Track Insert Mode

Post by Frode Langhelle »

Thanks for the reply Bernd!

I wrote a reply but i think it didn't get submitted. If this is my second answer because it suddenly reappers. I apologize.

My example:

I have a 35 sec promo (total lenght). 17 seconds of the start contains music, and the last 13 seconds is ending in a "sweeper" type voice production with fx - the remaining 5 seconds is effects fading out.. I want't the next track to always start after 17 seconds (when the music ends in the promo). If the ramp lenght of the next song is more than 13 seconds....i don't want the OUTRO marker to be moved earlier in the promo (resulting in music overlapping music). If the ramp duration of the next track is less than 13 seconds I want the song to be delayed so the "NEXT" marker in the promo alligns with the "ramp" marker in the next song.

My workaround in this example is a filter in the scriptline of the song following the promo: [Ramp Duration] <= 13.0 And [Has Ramp] = True. I then use the track insert mode: Start With Cue-in or end with ramp of next track. Works fine. But only on this particular promo. The next promo may have 23 seconds of music and therefor need it's own filter script line (with new ramp duration filter). A mode working exactly like "Start With Cue-in or end with ramp of next track" but with "Start with OUTRO or end with ramp of next track" instead may be the one I'm looking for here?

"VO: Regular but Protect Ramp of Next Track" is not ideal after my testing. The last 5 seconds of the promo with fading effects and delays needs to play through before i set the OUT marker. And it seems that in this mode the OUT marker is alligned with the ramp marker of the next song. Giving me all the effects and dealys to run out before the vocals hit. It's perfect for clean dry voice overs!

Maybe I'm missing something in my testing. i'm still a student of the software.....and it can do incredible transistions I've never heard before. Impressed! But this example is the only transistion type I'm having a hard time with...


All the best!

Frode
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radio42
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Re: New Track Insert Mode

Post by radio42 »

Hi Frode,

the "VO: Regular but Protect Ramp of Next Track" transition mode is exactly doing what you describe in your example.
Just ProppFrexx always uses the NEXT cue-point instead of the OUTRO.

ProppFrexx also would never adjust or change the OUT cue-point of the promo, ie. play it as defined from IN to OUT.
So please retest, I have just tested it here and it worked exactly as you described. Only the NEXT cue-point of the promo is aligned and shifted but only in case the ramp of the next track is too short (in your example less than 13 sec).
Frode Langhelle
Posts: 7
Joined: 21 May 2022 14:26
Re: New Track Insert Mode

Post by Frode Langhelle »

At my end "VO: Regular but Protect Ramp of Next Track" works exactly the way i described it. Aligning the OUT marker in the promo with the RAMP marker in the next song. The OUT marker in the promo is set after the fade of all the effects.. In my case 5 seconds after the voice over is finished. Then I have to get the Promos re-produced with a dry voice over in the end so I can tighten the transistion..... making sure the OUT marker in the promo is set exactly at the point where the voice is finished - leaving out/muting all the effects. Not perfect. But it works yes. My workaround with the filter on the script line just sounds better :)

Frode
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radio42
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Re: New Track Insert Mode

Post by radio42 »

I see no reason to reproduce anything!
And I honestly don’t understand your issue resp. What exactly is not perfect?!

In ProppFrexx you can define and set all your cue-points, so that you don’t need to reproduce, cut and whatever you do with your promos?!

The IN point defined the position in a track where a track should start (eg. to skip silence at the beginning).
The OUT point defines the position where the playback exactly finishes.
Etc.

You can manually adjust/define these positions exactly.
Ie. also after your effects have finally finished.

Note, that ProppFrexx also has a feature called Automatic Cue Point Detection (ACPD). This can be adjusted per media type with various settings - maybe this is not perfect in all cases (which is known and obvious).
Is this what you mean?

Else I don’t understand what exactly is the issue?
Sorry, that I still don’t understand your issue…

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